So, I got some kickback from Gary on my 1st "integral relationship" post.
We seem to be talking past each other a bit, so I took some time, thought about things a bit more, and would like to adjust my view, just a bit. (I responded over there, and this builds on that).
An integral relationship, per se, would need to be some superior form or relationship, above and beyond a "successful" relationship.
So I should start by investigating - what makes a successful relationship?
I browsed around, looking for successful relationship information - couples that talk about their own relationships, seem to have different ideas.
How about it - we know that for good health, the basics are - eat right, exercise right. What are the basics for good relationship? What do the "experts" say?
And then, a question - I tend to naturally define a successful relationship as long-lasting. If "successful", means love, ease, good communication, good physical relationship, etc - would people LEAVE a good relationship? Say something like "we got along GREAT, we communicate well, we laugh, we accept most everything about each other - but we both came to understand that it was time to move on".
I believe the facts are with me on this, but, most relationships don't end on that note.
So there is a time element involved, in regards to "successful" relationship.
This seems to me that, to even begin to speak about an integral relationship - above and beyond a successful relationship (and I haven't even begun to define that yet!), that to speak from grounded experience ABOUT integral relationship (combining a "successful relationship that has stood the test of time" with "the world of integral"), you need to have some years of successful relationship under your belt, in the majority of cases.
5 years? 10 years?
Until you have that, let's - again - work on "successful" relationship, as a 1st step .
although, as always, theory points the way - so we can theorize to our hearts content. You just can't speak authoritatively, and remember that one is speaking in the realm of theory or "maybe an integral relationship is this..."
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Integral Relationship Post 2
Comments
Re: Integral Relationship Post 2
by
Anonymous
on Sun 01 Apr 2007 10:25 PM PDT | Permanent Link
Some more kickback....for me, you seem to provide a "limited definition" on what "successful" means, and then proceed to layout "your" limiting beliefs around them. So, I want to ask you to consider that your perspective on what constitutes a successful relationship might mean different things to different people. As for "facts," what facts? The ones that support your viewpoint, of which there are certainly many, just as there are more people who don't operate from an integral perspective than there are that do. My point is that an integral relationship doesn't necessarily have to fit your models of "ifs"...instead, perhaps we could focus of being aware of all four quadrants and the 8 zones and how relationship arises in all of the zones, and that noticing, understanding, and the awareness of those complexities therein around relationship. As a result, the measure of a successful relationship might be entirely diferent than what you've laid out. For instance, if a short relationship resulted in the advancing of consciousness in both parties, would you call that unsuccessful? I contend only from a limited perspective. But thanks for more food for thought and those perspectives! I love continuing this conversation.
Gary Re: Re: Integral Relationship Post 2
by
ebuddha
on Tue 03 Apr 2007 01:19 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
"I want to ask you to consider that your perspective on what constitutes a successful relationship might mean different things to different people. As for "facts," what facts?"
I don't really disagree. Again, my assumption is, that an integral relationship builds upon a successful relationship, and that a successful relationship usually takes time to build, and "deepen", TO a level of intimacy. But clearly, we have all had moments or months of intimacy, that didn't "last", but were profoundly transformative, and those shouldn't be dismissed. But are they then at an enduring "stage", or a temporary "state"? :) And, of course, there MAY be a hidden "mean green?" in the "different things to different people". So does anything go? I'm not sure, again, if there is a way to resolve to integral, because as you say, there are no normative values that define all relationships. You can look to the mean to describe "normal" relationships, but everyone deviates from the mean. Part of integral is to go beyond anything goes, if that is possible Trackbacks
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